Frances Bailey is a sought-after interior stylist and creative consultant who understands that the right imagery and just-so styling can work wonders for any brand. Her design clients are on the prestigious AD100,
House Beautiful’s Next Wave and
Trad Home’s Rising Stars. In addition to having being a magazine editor for over a decade, she has styled for magazines including
Veranda, House Beautiful, House & Garden UK, AD, Elle Decor, Traditional Home, WSJ Off Duty, NY Times, Luxe Magazine, Dwell, Domino, Coastal Living, Flower Magazine, Hamptons Cottages & Gardens, New York Cottages & Gardens, as well as brands like Chairish, One King’s Lane and Crate & Barrel. She lives in New York, but is from Raleigh, NC.
*This interview was transcribed from video and edited for length and clarity.
Molly: It feels like styling and what magazines want has changed so dramatically in the last three years or so, at least in terms of the feedback we’re getting from editors. I'm so curious to hear how you think it's changed? What are the new rules of styling because suddenly it feels like woah, what's happening?! We're calling it artful messes. I think T magazine is the prime example of really leaning into this very undone look. You see it more with certain magazines than others, but I'm curious how you feel the rules of styling have changed?
Frances: It has changed, but it depends on the magazine. Some magazines are more buttoned up, but some projects are also naturally more buttoned up. But in general, you’re right. You want to open up the doors, you want to open up the windows, you want to loosen it up a little bit. You want it to feel like somebody just left the room. The question now is how can you accomplish that without it being too staged?
Something interesting is that the Elle Decor Editor-in-Chief does not like "smalls" at all. A year ago, they ran a dining room table on the cover with not a single thing on it! Not a vase, not a plate, not a napkin. It was like, whoa, whoa! So, there are definitely extremes. Minimalist is definitely a trend, but then you've got the maximalist, and that's definitely there too. I get thrown into both categories. Mostly, it's important to have a point of view.
One of the biggest changes in styling is who is paying for it. It used to be that 80% of my clients were magazines and 20% were designers directly. However, as magazines have reduced their budgets and cut back on the number of issues they publish, designers have started to hire the same teams that are shooting for the magazines. And when that happens, we control the art, which is a major win for the designers because they can have it for their social channels, book, and pitching purposes.
I know it’s a big cost so when it comes to investing in project photography, think of it as: good, better and best. Invest in a great photographer for the projects you really love and have the best shot to get placed. It's super important to invest in a strong photographer. And then, I believe stylists can do great things because this is what we do. We're problem solvers. We can foresee what needs to be done in the room to kind of kick it in the pants a little bit!
Molly: Sometimes designers are a little taken aback by the thought of hiring a stylist, because they think they should be able to style their own projects. I guess maybe you don't really need to sell yourself at this stage in your career, but if you had to sell yourself to a designer, what would you tell a designer that you bring to the table that would be different from them styling it themselves?
Frances: I'm not a stager. I'm a stylist for photography, so I'm looking at the image on the computer screen. Most designers are way too close to the project and can’t see the forest for the trees. They have poured two years of blood, sweat and tears into the project and when they walk into the living room, they don’t see the living room. They see the pain in the butt husband and how he turned down the original fabric they wanted, or how the cat has already ruined the mohair pillow. They see that the installer did not install the sconces at the right height. That’s all they see! I don't see that. I walk in and I see an incredibly beautiful, well thought out space.
When you bring in a stylist, it’s a fresh set of eyes with new fresh, energy. We come in as partners in crime. My job is to bring the enthusiasm and support the designer and be like, girl, you nailed this, and we are going to capture it and you’re going to be so proud of it!
Every single week a designer opens up the door and they start apologizing because “it’s not that good.” I can’t even enter the house and they’re already apologizing! I always say there is nothing for you to apologize for, this is amazing. Go sit in that corner and check your emails, I’m going to edit the home and we’re going to get down to your design. Because of our pre-production call, I know the shot list, what the designer wants, what she’s bringing in and what I’m bringing in. I start doing the flowers and then you frame up the shot and the designer it looking at the monitor in disbelief. She’s like yes, this is what I like! This is what it’s meant to be. That’s what gets me out of bed.
Molly: Do you go in with a specific goal in mind? If a designer says I really want this project to be in Elle Décor or AD, do you think about what that outlet likes vs what another outlet likes?
Frances: Yes! Once I get booked on the job, I schedule a call with the designer about a month before the shoot and have them send me a folder of scouting shots that I turn into a visual shot list. The first thing I ask is what their goal is and the purpose of the shoot. For example, if a designer is shooting the project to be the opener of their website, you need to shoot that image a little differently and we need the specs for that.
I always ask for the number one goal. Of course, everybody wants it all, but when you go to bed that night after the shoot, what’s the one thing you want to have accomplished? Sure, everyone wants print, great social media and photos for the website, but you won’t get everything, so if you can only get one thing, what is your top priority?
If you have the opportunity to do a couple key shots with variations, do that. You're not going to have time to do variations in every room, but if there's a couple key rooms, do one messy and one neat so you have some options. I also think going into a shoot understanding that you can't control the weather, and you just do the best you can setting reasonable expectations.
*Next, we chatted over our love for regional design magazines, how they can give you a much larger ROI, and how it would literally blow your mind to see the projects the big national publications are passing on these days.
Frances: Yeah, it is hard. I was on the editorial side for 12 years. I would say this, and I know you probably tell your clients this all the time, but with pitching in particular, it can't just be a pretty picture anymore. There has to be a hook. I know you know. Style and keep it loose, but not too much. You know, a little lifestyle. Get the designers to get in front of the camera a little bit more. It's not just about the homeowner.
Molly: We tell designers this all the time. Get a photo of YOU in the house. Especially when you know the homeowner doesn't want to be part of the story, which can be especially challenging for building a story.
Frances: Right. So for that, you look at the interior and you think…well, there's always a color issue. There's always going to be somebody who is doing something on great art. There's always going to be a story about budget decorating or giving tips on getting a look. You have to figure out the hook. If there's a house that has a strong hook that will likely land in one particular place, then we really are going to style for that, right? There's a styling strategy that helps you get into a color issue.
When it comes to styling, I think it's important to be strategic about the long-term goals, and not just showing up with a painting because it’s pretty. I had a designer who really wanted to become known for kitchens and bathrooms. She really couldn't care less about the living room or the bedroom. She and I said, well, then that's what we're going to do. We are going to kick ass on these spaces. We're going to really make sure that we do lots of angles and details with lots of layers. That's where I feel like we need to spend the styling time and resources. So often the stylist is creating visuals, but we all need to sing and dance together.
Molly: Do you feel like there's anything that's in and out when it comes to styling right now? I know that for me, there's a certain designer throw that was everywhere in 2017, you know what I mean? Or, once I had a stylist tell me that editors don't like orchids.
Frances: Well, there’s all the cliches like high heels in front of the vanity.
Molly: Yes or the bedroom shoes by the bed!
Frances: Right. It’s doing a little bit more research, what can we do that feels fresh and fun? Is it a different angle? It takes a little bit more conversation. I'm personally tired of branches on a kitchen counter. I mean I do it still because they work! I'm just tired of it, but I'll continue to do it to some degree.
Molly: What would you rather do than branches?
Frances: Something low, something more sculptural, and trying some cool vessels rather than something tall and green. Anything that you've done on repeat is fun to challenge yourself to be like, okay, how can we not do that?
In terms of what's in right now, ceramics are having a big moment. Any time you can land on a great ceramic that feels kind of special, that's always a great thing. I'm also tired of the all-white beds. I think that's so boring! And why would an interior designer be hired for a Matouk white bed? Getting more interesting bedding and layering that is an easy thing to do. I also feel that way about towels. I think towels are looking bad and they're so easy to find. Even H&M has these great scalloped ones— just have fun with it. You don't have to use the crappy white ones anymore.
Oh and regarding Luxe magazine...you said that about orchids. Luxe does not like orchids! That's true. And the reason why is because they're based in Florida. Florida is all about orchids, right? So they get homes where every room has an orchid. If I'm hired by Luxe and they send me out, they will literally say, "Do not use an orchid." I think one of my favorite things to do is to look at a designer's flower story and if they have only used blue hydrangeas, do not use a blue hydrangea again. Challenge yourself!
Even if a designer doesn’t use a stylist…whatever they have done, do not do it again in the next one. Become friendly with your flower market and flower vendor. Everybody has great options for flowers now.
I think plants are having a huge moment, so go beyond the two plants that everybody uses. There are so many interesting plants! I think the right plants can really make your design, or it’s a really affordable way of looking more interesting. You have to invest in it, spend $500 or $600 on your flowers, and that can give your shoot a crazy transformation.
Molly: What's your feeling on seasonality? Do you keep that in mind when you’re styling a project, or do you just say okay, this looks spring and we’re going to have to lean into that and therefore choose florals that are spring versus evergreen?
Frances: It depends on that number one goal, but it seems to be less of a thing since you can get anything at any time of year now. Beautiful cherry blossoms only come out in the spring, and I’m like okay that’s fine because that would be stunning on that dining room table. But if you can do something evergreen, it is obviously better for publicists. For fall, spring or even Christmas, you have to work four months in advance to style for that window of time.
*Next we went into discussing how backlogged publications seem to be this time of year due to all of the industry events and Markets and how tough it can be to get fast answers…
Frances: I subscribe to 15 magazines every month. Figuring out that dance better—and the magazines have to figure that out, too, because they're frustrating a lot of great designers. I'd rather hear a "no" any day of the week than a "maybe." A no is an answer.
So you get four well stories in an issue (Editor's note: Well stories are the big meaty feature stories). So if there's 12 issues, that's 48 homes in America that are going to be featured. That's it. It's a numbers game. It's like me trying to find a single man here in New York! It's a numbers thing, Molly. What I've noticed is that magazines seem to pay attention to these designers with these larger Instagram numbers. The back door is to build up your social and all of a sudden, they come courting. It's almost like reverse dating.
Molly: Easier said than done! So are you mostly working with designers now who are hiring you to do their projects? Or are you mostly working with magazines?
Frances: I was 100% a magazine stylist and then Covid hit, and magazines were not shooting. I mean, I literally was at the tarmac going to a magazine shoot, and they called and said don’t come…the homeowners won't allow crews in the house. I didn't think I would ever work again! But then the designers started calling and they're like, hey, we've got clients in Nantucket. They’re going to be on the beach all day. You can come, we'll sneak you in! So it became a bunch of that. It was like a year of being snuck into homes. So now I mostly work for designers. I did two Veranda shoots this winter. I have a Coastal shoot coming up, you know, a couple. But I really love working with designers.
Molly: Well, I love that you offer
virtual styling. I just think it's so genius. We've told some of our clients about it because I feel like the biggest challenge is the expense of bringing someone in from out of town—if you don't live in NYC, LA or another larger city. I mean, we get projects submitted to us multiple times a week in hopes that we'll take them on to place, and I have to turn down 95% of what I get, because the photography and the styling are just not on point. So...I've asked you this before, but again, I want to hear your perspective on someone who's not in New York or L.A. and if they're really trying to get national exposure. I think a lot of what gets submitted to us is just very formal, you know, very formal flower arrangements with the all-white roses or it just feels like nobody actually lives in the space. You said that good styling means messing it up a little bit. Can you give me a good example of what that means? Maybe something that you've done in a house to mess it up a little bit?
Frances: Yes, I think it's important if you have a really girly room, you need something butch. And if you have a butchy room, you need something girly. So by that, I mean it's very slick. It's not a lot of soft. Right? It's tile. So, that's why a beautiful peony or just a loose, soft something. Try to think in opposites. If it's really girly... I'm thinking of a dining room and it's that Gracie wallpaper. Bring in a modern vase. And all of a sudden you went from your 60-year-old mom's beautiful, well-appointed dining room to something interesting.
Or do sculptural flowers or something a little left of center. Don't line it up right underneath the chandelier. Maybe it's a little left. Maybe the plates aren't set. Maybe there's a little pre-party situation going on. You have to play around. Sometimes symmetry works, but sometimes it's more fun if it doesn't. You know, we love things in threes. So, you know, two pillows here, one pillow there. Maybe something's a little too perfect. So then sit in it, like, literally sit in the chair and get that pillow a little messy and then take the shot and see how that does. But I always say, when in doubt, take it out. If you're feeling like you're not sure, it's not worth it. Just go ahead and take it out. Trust your gut.
One thing that designers sometimes get wrong is scale with flowers. So they will go really ditzy—meaning too small, or they will go really massive. Look at the scale before the shoot and ask if it’s telling the story you want it to tell.
For example, if everything is the same height on the coffee table, it’s not going to photograph well. You want different variations in height, so get the flowers taller than the books and if the books are all lined up, it's just not going to be that interesting. But for younger designers, I say, you do not want to be the oldest thing in your house. Get something old in there because it's going to make it more interesting, like you collected it. But then also for the 60-year-old designer, you don't want to be the youngest thing in the house. So you need to think about those things.
Molly: That also brings me to something that happened with a client of mine a few years ago. I got their project photos back, and they had a glass of wine in every room of the house. And I literally was like, eek! It feels like we're telling the story of an alcoholic. The photographer had missed this really important detail too. I'm curious, what's your take on styling with alcohol?
Frances: Only use it for one shot. It needs to make sense. I would say if it's an outdoor patio, sure, but then, nothing else. If there’s a beautiful bar, then do a beautiful drink. Bars are having a moment and wine cellars are having a moment. You can certainly do those, but I would absolutely only do one shot. There are other ways around it such as a teacup or a Pellegrino. You don't need to use alcohol.
Molly: So what about with magazines? Do they care?
Frances: Yes, specific editors do care, so limit your alcohol to one place in the house. I would also just limit food in general. Just remember, this is an interior shoot. So there's lifestyle and then there's interiors. Sometimes they can cross over, but if it's interiors, they really don't care about lifestyle styling. I mean, there just needs to be a little hint of something in the kitchen, you know, something green. It goes back to why are you shooting it? What's the point? All that kind of stuff. There's a couple of exceptions, like if there's a gorgeous, exceptional wine cellar and they want some special moment with wine. You might also do the wine on the dinner table as well, like a red wine, but that's it. I wouldn't do it any other place.
Molly: In terms of the kitchen, because you mentioned the food thing, what's your take on overflowing bowls with lemons and lots of stuff, or do you prefer just to keep it more minimalist?
Frances: It just depends on the space. If it's a really minimalist white box kitchen, like we get a lot of these in New York—really sleek—I love to bring in a wooden bowl with a beautiful bok choy or another beautiful green. You don't need a lot, but it has to be beautiful. My biggest takeaway for designers is: fewer but better. If it's a North Carolina farmhouse, and they want it to feel abundant with tons of bowls, then we'll do bowls and bowls and bowls! But make sure that it's not just three apples. It needs to be 50 apples. Go big. Appliances, for the most part, have to go. Cutting boards are great, but make sure that they're vintage—not new ones.
Frances: What’s oddly controversial is soap. There are some editors who hate pump soap. I mean, is that not the craziest thing?
Molly: That is so funny. They want a bar of soap?
Frances: I would say to have a nice mix. In your powder room, have a pretty bar of soap. And then if you are shooting a potting shed or a kitchen or a gym or a place that's more family friendly, like a laundry room, then a pump could work, but I would never put pump soap in a powder room.
Molly: My mind is a little blown. So do you have a brand of soap that you love?
Frances: I travel with a huge thing of soap in all colors and shapes! And oh gosh, everyone needs to get rid of all the sets that they have in the bathroom... The Kleenex, the toothbrush holder, etc. They're not interesting to anybody. I don't care if you get them at Waterworks. Get rid of them, and then style with something else. Do something pretty like some elegant flowers in a pretty vessel.
Molly: So, living in New York, how do you have a styling closet?
Frances: I don't know. I can make it work. I don't know. Molly, I don't know. We figure it out somehow, don't we?
Molly: I’m spoiled now!
Frances: I'm looking at your space going, I'm so jealous. I'm so jealous!
Molly: I mean, that's the thing. When people tell us how we like living in Raleigh, the first thing I say is like, I mean, we went from 1400 square feet to a 4000 square foot house.
Frances: Pretty awesome. Well, when you get ready to shoot, you let me know. You need to shoot!
Molly: Well if we can ever finish it, you will be my first call! Thank you so much for all these incredible tips.
