LET IT OUT
letter 
EPISODES 385, 386 & 387
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“You’ll Get there” … or you won’t 
 
In 2016, I sat next to a friend who also had a podcast. Hers had a much larger audience but our content and guests overlapped. Her latest interview was with a dream guest of mine.
 
I congratulated her and told her how much that person’s work meant to me and how well she did at the interview. I would never ask her how it came to be or for a contact but I did tell her I’d tried reaching out to the guest for years with no avail. 
 
Then she said this, which has stuck with me all these years later:
“You’ll get there.” 
 
Well I still haven’t gotten there.
… if there is interviewing that person.
…if there is the audience size and reach of her podcast.
…if there is the hopes I had in 2016. 
 
I have gotten here--a place I never could’ve anticipated then, but is mostly good. If I’m being honest I still want to interview that person and for my podcast to have even half the audience hers had back then, but I understand “getting there” … isn’t a clear, linear path in a singular direction. Therefore, due to the cul de sacs (distractions) I’ve decided to go around and around, as well as twists out of my control--getting anywhere takes me a long time. 
 
Getting to the “there” she was referring to could go one of two ways:
  1. I do interview that person, but it takes triple the time it took her to, and that’s why comparing myself to her is fruitless and even painful.
  2. I do not interview that person and my podcast never reaches the audience size or financial success her podcast had.
The through-line in both scenarios is: I keep trying. I stay in motion, moving toward a goal. Inching from here to there is the adventure, even if I never reach the destination I intended, I keep moving.
(*note: the word journey might be better than adventure but it is cringey so I couldn't use it) 
 
When Fleet Foxes’ Robin Pecknold discussed his track “Mearcstapa”, he told the story of sailor Bernard Moitessier who was about to win a race in 1968 but didn’t want to stop sailing so he kept moving, forfeiting the championship. I hope to enjoy all I do at a level where I’m so keen to be doing it I don’t want to stop--even for a previously wanted “there”--which in Bernard’s case was winning. Maybe he still won? 
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Hearing this story I wondered if “there” is what I want or what I think I should want. If I believe in Eckhart Tolle’s line about manifesting– 
“Who are you to think that you know what you want?” –then I don’t even know where my “there” is. 
 
I am incredibly privileged and I could fill dozens of emails with how fortunate I’ve been with opportunities because of my unearned advantages. Some goals I wish for will not happen; maybe I will stop desiring them or maybe I’ll yearn for them until I die--either way is okay. To want for nothing seems great, but anticipation, longing, and yearning are what makes us keep creating and moving. 
 
Wilco’s Jeff Tweedy said in a conversation with George Saunders, that when he turned 50 he wrote his memoir and, almost immediately after, another book about songwriting and soon after that a new album. When he told his father about this productivity, his father responded, “My 50s were my most productive decade.” 
 
I find stories of people still making things at different ages comforting. My yoga teacher always said, “when you stop moving, things stop working.” I think that’s true physically and emotionally…it doesn’t matter how well or how fast, just stay in motion. 
 
In gym class when we had to run the mile, there were the kids who breezed in around 6 minutes, normal paced kids, those walking winded with their hands on top of their heads with a side cramp, then there was me…behind them. Embarrassed with my general slowness on display, I kept walk-jogging because I had to. Now I see I only felt self-conscious when I compared my pace to that of the other kids; alone I just ran slow--not a shameful crime. 
 
WE WOULDN’T FEEL BEHIND IN A VACUUM; IS COMPARISON THE REASON WE FEEL BEHIND?
 
When I was in my early twenties I had a full-time job, a boss, health insurance provided by my employer, a long-term relationship, and  for silly-eating-disorder-related-reasons was sober before it was cool to be.
 
Today in my early thirties, I have creative projects that make money but inconsistently,  work two retail shop jobs, started freelance SEO writing, haven’t had a long term relationship in years, and stayed out late more last month than I did in the entire decade of my twenties. 
 
Is this backwards? Is this shameful? Or does it only feel wrong when, like gym class, I compare myself?
 
For me, my thirties, not my twenties, is the time I can handle staying out late, drinking some, casually dating, living two time zones from family, and the uncertainty and unpredictability of an entirely freelance career. 
 
In this Courtney Barnett sings: 
“Run the race at your own pace
You'll get there”
 It’s comforting but not true. More accurately… 
 *You might get there or not or you’ll go elsewhere. 
We grow, and therefore what we want changes. We redefine it and then move closer to it. And detours inevitably come up, moving us somewhere else. 
 
A few years ago a roommate read to me a part of the Alan Watts book he was reading. I don’t remember which book or where (if you know, tell me). But the passage was about the difference between how we think life will go vs. how it actually goes. Alan Watts depicts this with a diagram. A grid with straight lines represents how we thought it would be. A wild, curved line over the grid that looks like a twisted lasso represents how it actually is. In 2020 when he showed me I just said, “wow that would be a cool tattoo.” 
 
Now two years later, I see how I’m living in the wild lasso line, not the grid. When my podcaster friend said I’d get there, she was referring to the grid of what I thought my life would be, but it ended up being the lasso line. I remember that day and that conversation with her well because one minute after she said the now-infamous-to-this-newsletter line: “you’ll get there”, a handsome tall gentleman in a green grandpa sweater said hi to us.  A few months later he’d become my boyfriend: a detour from the work focused “there” I was focused on then. It ended, but I wouldn’t trade it, even if it distracted me from the one-track, mindset I’d been in before meeting him.
 
Last month I talked about my desire for focus. People pull our focus, making the Watts line more winding--more beautiful. And that is worth forfeiting some focus for, at least sometimes. In the Big Thief song, Time Escaping, Adrianne Lenker sings:  
“Separate, 
contact, 
concentrate”
 
To me this alludes to the need for time alone vs. the need to contact others to quash loneliness. When my loneliness gets replaced with distraction, I need to concentrate again and therefore, as she says, separate. A cycle of leaning into detours then retreating to unpack what I discovered while moving around in them is a process I repeat like her refrain. When I am still in my own head too long, I feel anxious about being behind at my age, but this is only when comparing my timing to the timing of other people’s careers or relationships. 
 
Birthdays cause me measure where I am against peers at my age. But it didn’t happen this year; I was focused on being grateful my “there” is here in California. On that day with her in 2016, the furthest west I’d gone was Chicago--I’d never even visited this state. 
 
Today I am here. Will I get there? I don’t know. 
Will I go somewhere I’ve never been and don’t know exists?
 
Thank you for being here. You’re doing great wherever you are. 
 
Below are episodes with guests in three different decades,
 -Vanessa is in her 40s
 -Sacha is in her 50s 
-Norma is in her 70s
- I’m in my 30s  
 
In my conversation with Norma I voiced to her my fears around aging, dating, and feeling stunted compared to my peers. But in hearing about these guests’ lives, a common thread is they were all led in directions they couldn’t have anticipated but turned out well. I hope it will for me too, and you. 
 
Love, 
Katie 
 
Things I’m working on now that I'm 32…
  1. Stop fixing myself or trying to. I don’t have to do the 10 things I said I had to do to allow dopamine release or fun… I don’t have to delay my gratification because by delaying it I might actually miss it altogether.
  2. Stop comparing myself and my timing to how long things take other people.
  3. Sleep… better sleep hygiene. Or maybe we’ll sleep when we’re dead? Or is that what all sleep-deprived people say?
What are you working on? Join me in any of these? 
 
ALSO, 
if you want support or accountability, I have only ONE spot now open for summer. If you want to have a call with me to find out if it could be a fit for you, here’s the link to read more about what the SUPPORTIVE SESSIONS are and how creative consulting with me works, plus a link to book a phone call with me to talk about it. This episode from last summer explains how sessions work from 4 people who have done it with me over the year
: )  or as always email me with any questions on anything. katie@letitouttt.com 
 
**Images above of sailor Bernard Moitessier on his boat Joshua here.

HOUSEKEEPING ANNOUNCEMENTS 
 
1. LAST CHANCE ON THE SURVEY RE 
FRIENDSHIP 
 Speaking of timing and the decade our our 30s Kayleen's second book But You're Still So Young… is all about this. She cleverly shows how thirtysomethings have rethought the markers of adulthood previously identified by sociologists. The signifiers of being in our thirties today are not the same—repeated economic upheaval, rising debt, decreasing marriage rates, fertility treatments, and a more open-minded society have all led to a shifting definition of adulthood. and I highly recommend it!  

Also, Kayleen Schaefer and I are gathering stories about friend breakups. Kayleen's first book is about friendship, Text Me When You Get Home, and I talk about friendship here all the time. But we don’t talk much about friendships ending. The language and rituals post romantic breakups are so well-known they're cliché—ice cream, sobbing on the floor—but when we split with friends, we don’t know what to do. Anyone coming undone over a friend breakup, at least publicly, isn’t the norm, even though it can hurt as badly as a romantic breakup.
 
That’s why we’re looking at friend breakups, along with other kinds of friendship difficulties. More people are questioning how to keep their friendships—or how to act within them. If you want to tell us about your friend breakups and ask any other friendship questions, fill out 
To incentivize it a bit, Kayleen is offering to give away a five copies of her latest book
But You're Still So Young… And I will give away five copies of our Break Up Kit zine 
(which many people have told me they use for friend-breakups). 
We'll pick winners randomly from everyone who fills this out. ---Thank you!!! : ) 
 
2. MY MONTHLY PRIMEADINE SUPPLEMENT UPDATE  
Since the Nadine episode, I have been getting a lot of questions about the supplement she swears by that her friend makes. It helps with hair growth, skin, and aging. She sold me on it,  I bought it, and I've been taking it for about a 4 months and turns out, I do notice a difference. If you do want to try it I reached out to Primeadine and they are giving us a discount which is: LETITOUT 
I figured I'd share since so many people reached out and asked me about it privately. 
 
 Happy to answer any more questions you have on it. or anything!  
**Also speaking of Nadine, her skin care line, has been my favorite since 2013. It's called Living Libations and Nadine was kind enough to give us a discount at Living Libations with code: LETITOUT
 

In the weeds: herbalist vanessa chakour on our earthly bodies
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Herbalist and author Vanessa Chakour tells how at 17, a life-threatening accident led her to heal her eating disorder and work through sexual assault trauma, which in turn led to her becoming a professional boxer, eventually bringing her to New York City where she began studying herbalism. Now, she’s an author and educator who trains others in her field of helping people to connect to their environments. Her work is rooted in the natural world and what she calls our own inner-wild, or our intuitive connection to ourselves. We cover the connection between eating disorder recovery and nature as well as how consent and anger relate to weeds like dandelion,  herbal infusions; navigating highs such as new relationships and career successes (Vanessa's in one of those highs now); and how to manage the nervous system during both highs and lows. We discuss her new book, Awakening Artemis.

Norma Kamali on Dating, Aging, London in the 60s, Her Iconic Fashion Career, and "The More You Do, the More You Can Do"
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Iconic designer Norma Kamali recorded a conversation with me over Zoom from her office in Manhattan, we cover her 50-year career, from graduating from FIT with a degree in illustration to working for Northwest Airlines—which allowed her to fly to London on the weekends for $29. It felt like a time capsule to talk about  London in the 1960s and how she would bring back pieces for friends, which led her to start a store, and eventually design her own pieces.  Her designs were worn by Bianca Jagger, Bette Midler, and Cher. But at 29 Norma left her marriage, which meant walking away from the brand she’d quietly built with only $98 in her pocket. Starting over ultimately led her to create a brand with longevity and panache. From her unique sleeping bag coat design (worn by the doormen at Studio 54 and by those standing outside hoping it would increase their chances of getting in) to the now-iconic red swimsuit Farrah Fawcett wore on that famous poster, Norma has dressed generations. I hope I did her career and story justice in this conversation with an icon.

Little things: annual birthday party hosted by sacha jones
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A VIP in my life—Sacha Jones—hosts the podcast every year for the episode the last week of April (my birthday). This year she really outdid herself: she shocks me with questions sourced from my friends and family and a special guest joins us to host a special rapid-fire round. I truly knew none of this was happening beforehand and it felt like the surprise party I’ve always dreamed of. Sacha is one of the most creative, wise, and gentle people I know and our annual catch-ups end up being time capsules of what we’re leaning this year. Prior to her surprises, we cover craving focus while being people who do many things at once. 

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Thank you for listening to  Let It Out  and/or Spiraling  it means a lot always.
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